I was in the Navy and visited Subic Bay in 1977 1981 and 82 and always had a good time in the Philippines I went to the Mayon Volcano and to Baggio up north and Iba Beach then Zombolas may own volcano I had to fly out of Manila to get to. Nuclear takes a lot of higher order civilization something I think even the the United States is lacking at this point and the Philippines unfortunately they are definitely in a bad way in their civilization and it starts with corruption
After the visit to Bataan NPP, our driver Noli announced that he wanted to show us his home area Subic Bay. This would take us out of the way back to manila and cost us at least two hours. My brother Dave was on the trip. Some people think Dave and I are scary. I gave Dave the do we want to take this guy on look. .He came back with the no way look. So we went to Subic Bay, Here's a part of the trip report that I deleted.
After our tour, we drove up to Subic Bay through gorgeous countryside.
Took about 45 minutes on a narrow country road.The bay itself is quite spectacular,
with multiple large lobes, and a sizable container port.
All sorts of infrastructure left over from the Navy including a very long runway.
This was labeled the Subic International Airport, but no commercial activity was visible.
We were blown away. What a beautiful body of water.
Nuclear does not need a higher order of civilization. It just needs common sense. My guess is that that common sense will come from a place like the Philippines long before it comes from the USA.
Thanks for replying about your experience and the beautiful Philippine Islands it's a place that I hold dear to my heart and I love the people and my cousin who was stationed there married a Filipino and my friends have Filipino wives and I go to the Navy reunions of our ship CG 24 USS Reeves.
I am surprised if they do not have an equipment hatch on Containment. As far as an opening to facilitate removal of the large components, remember that in the US holes were made in the top of containment to pull the SGs out for replacement. So, notwithstanding an equipment hatch, other openings will need to be made to facilitate equipment.
I too was surprised. Making holes in a post-tensioned concrete structure is a dicey business. They screwed it up at Crystal River and it cost us the plant. It says something about "nuclear quality" that we would end up with such a stupid design.
All the stuff in containment at Bataan has been sitting there for 40 years, undehumidified and with nil maintenance. I will be very surprised if they don't find somethign big that needs replacing and when they do they will have no choice but to make a big hole in that beautiful concrete.
Crystal River was a delamination issue they discovered during construction. That is was a problem that should have happened. Gilbert was AE on CR-3 while Bechtel was AE at nearly all others. None have seen what CR-3 saw. As far as the concrete sitting out for 60 years, we have non-nuclar plants with non-nuclear grade concrete for turbine buildings still running okay after 80 years. The concrete would be my least worry.
Agree the current condition of the concrete is not the problem. The problem is likely to be the condition of the components that have been sitting inside a non-dehumidified containment in a tropical, marine environment for 40 years. If any of the major components need replacing they will have to bust through the good concrete. If the plant had been operating for those 40 years, they almost certainly would now need to replace large radiation damaged components.
Not having a big equipment hatch is nonsense, that only engineers who are focused on something other than robust design would come up with. The Russians and the Koreans have learned the lesson. The Americans have not. The AP1000 has no equipment hatch.
Just wondering is it because there is no large equipment hatch in American design of nuclear because of a 40-year licensing which seems artificial to begin with?
Westinghouse says the design life of the AP1000 is 60 years. A 20 year renewals is taken for granted altho it is an expensive bit of paperwork. I can only assume they have convinced themselves that they won't need to replace anything big over that period.
My view is that if you are going to build a big, beautiful concrete dome, treat it like a dam or a cathedral, effectively infinite life. Stuff inside gets replaced, upgraded periodically. But that's not how the beancounters think. and the beancounters (aka MBAs) are in charge.
The AP1000 is a beancounter design. Cramped, not enough room for maintenance, smallish pipes leading to vibration and IGSC cracking. That's called nuclear quality. But without real competition, such designs can hang around for a very long while.
Acronyms, Acronyms, Acronyms.......
DHed?
EDG?
TG?
NPP?
PNNP?
I can guess at some, but not all....
I was in the Navy and visited Subic Bay in 1977 1981 and 82 and always had a good time in the Philippines I went to the Mayon Volcano and to Baggio up north and Iba Beach then Zombolas may own volcano I had to fly out of Manila to get to. Nuclear takes a lot of higher order civilization something I think even the the United States is lacking at this point and the Philippines unfortunately they are definitely in a bad way in their civilization and it starts with corruption
Brian,
After the visit to Bataan NPP, our driver Noli announced that he wanted to show us his home area Subic Bay. This would take us out of the way back to manila and cost us at least two hours. My brother Dave was on the trip. Some people think Dave and I are scary. I gave Dave the do we want to take this guy on look. .He came back with the no way look. So we went to Subic Bay, Here's a part of the trip report that I deleted.
After our tour, we drove up to Subic Bay through gorgeous countryside.
Took about 45 minutes on a narrow country road.The bay itself is quite spectacular,
with multiple large lobes, and a sizable container port.
All sorts of infrastructure left over from the Navy including a very long runway.
This was labeled the Subic International Airport, but no commercial activity was visible.
We were blown away. What a beautiful body of water.
Nuclear does not need a higher order of civilization. It just needs common sense. My guess is that that common sense will come from a place like the Philippines long before it comes from the USA.
Thanks for replying about your experience and the beautiful Philippine Islands it's a place that I hold dear to my heart and I love the people and my cousin who was stationed there married a Filipino and my friends have Filipino wives and I go to the Navy reunions of our ship CG 24 USS Reeves.
I am surprised if they do not have an equipment hatch on Containment. As far as an opening to facilitate removal of the large components, remember that in the US holes were made in the top of containment to pull the SGs out for replacement. So, notwithstanding an equipment hatch, other openings will need to be made to facilitate equipment.
Rod,
I too was surprised. Making holes in a post-tensioned concrete structure is a dicey business. They screwed it up at Crystal River and it cost us the plant. It says something about "nuclear quality" that we would end up with such a stupid design.
All the stuff in containment at Bataan has been sitting there for 40 years, undehumidified and with nil maintenance. I will be very surprised if they don't find somethign big that needs replacing and when they do they will have no choice but to make a big hole in that beautiful concrete.
Crystal River was a delamination issue they discovered during construction. That is was a problem that should have happened. Gilbert was AE on CR-3 while Bechtel was AE at nearly all others. None have seen what CR-3 saw. As far as the concrete sitting out for 60 years, we have non-nuclar plants with non-nuclear grade concrete for turbine buildings still running okay after 80 years. The concrete would be my least worry.
Agree the current condition of the concrete is not the problem. The problem is likely to be the condition of the components that have been sitting inside a non-dehumidified containment in a tropical, marine environment for 40 years. If any of the major components need replacing they will have to bust through the good concrete. If the plant had been operating for those 40 years, they almost certainly would now need to replace large radiation damaged components.
Not having a big equipment hatch is nonsense, that only engineers who are focused on something other than robust design would come up with. The Russians and the Koreans have learned the lesson. The Americans have not. The AP1000 has no equipment hatch.
Just wondering is it because there is no large equipment hatch in American design of nuclear because of a 40-year licensing which seems artificial to begin with?
Westinghouse says the design life of the AP1000 is 60 years. A 20 year renewals is taken for granted altho it is an expensive bit of paperwork. I can only assume they have convinced themselves that they won't need to replace anything big over that period.
My view is that if you are going to build a big, beautiful concrete dome, treat it like a dam or a cathedral, effectively infinite life. Stuff inside gets replaced, upgraded periodically. But that's not how the beancounters think. and the beancounters (aka MBAs) are in charge.
The AP1000 is a beancounter design. Cramped, not enough room for maintenance, smallish pipes leading to vibration and IGSC cracking. That's called nuclear quality. But without real competition, such designs can hang around for a very long while.